Legislature(1995 - 1996)

03/21/1995 03:35 PM Senate STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
               SENATE STATE AFFAIRS COMMITTEE                                
                         March 21, 1995                                        
                           3:35 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
 Senator Bert Sharp, Chairman                                                  
 Senator Randy Phillips, Vice-Chairman                                         
 Senator Loren Leman                                                           
 Senator Jim Duncan                                                            
 Senator Dave Donley                                                           
                                                                               
    COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                         
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 110                                                           
 "An Act relating to administrative adjudication under the                     
 Administrative Procedure Act."                                                
                                                                               
 SENATE BILL NO. 71                                                            
 "An Act relating to deep freeze classics; and providing for an                
 effective date."                                                              
                                                                               
 CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 4(STA)(title am)                                        
 "An Act allowing, for the purposes of permanent fund dividend                 
 eligibility, an individual to accompany, as the spouse or minor or            
 disabled dependent, another eligible resident who is absent for               
 vocational, professional, or other specific education for which a             
 comparable program is not reasonably available in the state, for              
 secondary or postsecondary education, for military service, for               
 medical treatment, for service in the Congress or in the Peace                
 Corps, or for other reasons that the commissioner of revenue may              
 establish by regulation; requiring, for the purposes of permanent             
 fund dividend eligibility, an individual who is not physically                
 present in the state to maintain and demonstrate at all times an              
 intent to return to the state to remain permanently;  relating to             
 the eligibility for 1992, 1993, and 1994 permanent fund dividends             
 of certain spouses and dependents of eligible applicants; relating            
 to appeal periods for certain 1994 permanent fund dividends; and              
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                             
                                                                               
 SB 110 - No previous senate committee action.                                 
                                                                               
 SB 71 - No previous senate committee action.                                  
                                                                               
 HB 4 - No previous senate committee action.                                   
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
 Teresa Williams, Assistant Attorney General                                   
 Commercial Section, Civil Division, Department of Law                         
 1031 W. 4th Ave., Ste. 200, Anchorage, AK 99501-1994¶269-5100                 
   POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 110                                 
                                                                               
 Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                    
 State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3732                            
   POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of SB 71                                  
                                                                               
 Cleeta Barger, Delta Chamber of Commerce                                      
 P.O. Box 888, Delta Junction, AK 99737¶895-4142                               
   POSITION STATEMENT:  in favor of SB 71                                      
                                                                               
 Carol Stock                                                                   
 P.O. Box 1170, Delta Junction, AK 99737¶895-4160                              
   POSITION STATEMENT: in favor of SB 71                                       
                                                                               
 Dennis Poshard, Director                                                      
 Charitable Gaming Div., Dept. of Revenue                                      
 P.O. Box 110440, Juneau, AK 99811-0440¶465-2229                               
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on SB 71                                      
                                                                               
 Rod Mourant, Aide to Representative Pete Kott                                 
 State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3777                            
   POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 4                                   
                                                                               
 Representative Pete Kott                                                      
 State Capitol, Juneau, Alaska, 99801-1182¶465-3777                            
   POSITION STATEMENT: prime sponsor of HB 4                                   
                                                                               
 Wendy Hughes, Dividend Appeals Unit                                           
 Permanent Fund Dividend Div., Dept. of Revenue                                
 P.O. Box 110460, Juneau, AK 99811-0460¶465-2038                               
   POSITION STATEMENT: testified on HB 4                                       
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-12, SIDE A                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 001                                                                    
 SSTA - 3/21/95                                                                
                                                                               
             SB 110 ADMINISTRATIVE ADJUDICATIONS                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP calls the Senate State Affairs Committee to order at           
 3:35 p.m. and brings up SB 110 as the first order of business                 
 before the committee.  SB 110 was sponsored by the Rules Committee            
 by request of the Governor.  The chairman calls the first witness.            
                                                                               
 TERESA WILLIAMS, Assistant Attorney General, Commercial Section,              
 Civil Division, Department of Law, testifying from Anchorage,                 
 states she is testifying on behalf of the administration.  The                
 administration thinks administrative litigation should be faster              
 and less costly for parties and the state.  Ms. Williams reads                
 information contained in the Governor's Transmittal Letter for SB
 110 to the committee.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 071                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Ms. Williams if, under Section 5 of SB
 110, it can't just state "reimbursement of expenses accordant with            
 standard established."  Why is the word "subsistence" in there?               
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS thinks the bill could say "food and lodging."                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS thinks that would be better wording than               
 "subsistence."                                                                
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS thinks the word "subsistence" was taken from the court           
 rule.                                                                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Williams to continue with her testimony.              
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS continues her review of the Governor's Transmittal               
 Letter for SB 110.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 115                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks Ms. Williams to repeat the reference she made             
 to a preponderance of the evidence being the appropriate standard,            
 even when there is a potential for incarceration.                             
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS lists several examples: a probation revocation                   
 proceeding, where a preponderance of the evidence is the standard             
 of proof that is used, even though the person will be going to jail           
 if they lose in the probation revocation proceeding; and for a                
 juvenile being waived into adult court, the standard is only a                
 preponderance of the evidence, and if they lose, they go into adult           
 court and face incarceration.                                                 
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks Ms. Williams to review and explain that section           
 of SB 110 again.                                                              
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS responds there is no standard of proof now set forth             
 in state law.  There is a court decision that states the standard             
 is a preponderance of the evidence, unless otherwise stated.  That            
 is what we are following in SB 110.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 138                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks if that only applies to administrative                    
 adjudications.                                                                
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS replies that is correct.                                         
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks if this would mostly apply to the area of                 
 appeals for revocation of driver's licenses.                                  
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS responds no, that is probably a really minor aspect of           
 administrative adjudications.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 149                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Ms. Williams if there are any                     
 organizations or groups which support SB 110.                                 
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS is not aware of any groups supporting or opposing SB
 110.                                                                          
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Ms. Williams if SB 110 is mostly                  
 supported internally by the administration.                                   
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS states that is correct.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 165                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY comments SB 110 seems to contain reasonable                    
 suggestions.  But he is also interested in the whole process, and             
 he would like some time to research the issue.  He has always been            
 concerned with the process by which notice is given for the                   
 adoption of regulations.  There is no requirement that the public             
 be shown the final version of proposed regulations.  He would like            
 to see more detailed notice of proposals.  He would like to get               
 information for the committee by the next meeting, if the committee           
 is interested.                                                                
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS states he would definitely be interested in            
 Senator Donley's proposal.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 199                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. WILLIAMS responds the title of SB 110 refers to administrative            
 adjudication, which is a different section than the one dealing               
 with regulations.  There are bills pending which deal strictly with           
 regulations.  She asks that the committee keep administrative                 
 adjudication separate from regulations.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 206                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP appreciates what Ms. Williams just said, but to give           
 proper notice before things become effective - to get the job done,           
 sometimes you have to wrap the sweet stuff around the apple.  He              
 asks Senator Donley if he can have information for the committee by           
 the next committee meeting.                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY replies he will try to do that.                                
                                                                               
 Number 219                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS states the committee will probably have                
 committee substitute for SB 110, and at some point in time he would           
 like, on page 3, line 17, to have the word "subsistence" replaced             
 with "reimbursement of food and lodging expenses, in accordance               
 with the standards established by the Department of Administration            
 under AS 39.20.160."                                                          
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP understands from Ms. Williams testimony that there             
 would not be objection to that change from the administration.  The           
 chairman asks for Ms. Williams' fax number so that they can work              
 with her on a committee substitute and announces the committee will           
 hold SB 110 and hear it again at the next committee meeting.                  
 SSTA - 3/21/95                                                                
                                                                               
                  SB  71 DEEP FREEZE CLASSIC                                 
                                                                               
 SENATOR SHARP brings up SB 71 as the next order of business before            
 the Senate State Affairs Committee and calls the first witness.               
                                                                               
 SENATOR GEORGIANNA LINCOLN, prime sponsor of SB 71, reads the                 
 sponsor statement for SB 71 to the committee.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 291                                                                    
                                                                               
 CLEETA BARGER, Delta Chamber of Commerce, informs the committee               
 that the idea for a deep-freeze classic was the result of a study             
 done by the chamber, which was looking for ways to improve the                
 economy in the Delta area.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 308                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks if Delta has held a deep-freeze classic           
 before.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MS. BARGER responds no, the brochure Senator Phillips is looking at           
 is pre-planning for the classic.  At the time, the chamber did not            
 know they needed legislative approval to use the word "classic."              
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS suggests Delta hold a rodeo.                           
                                                                               
 Number 332                                                                    
                                                                               
 CAROL STOCK, testifying from Delta, states SB 71 would help                   
 diversify the economy by benefiting the tourism industry.                     
                                                                               
 SENATOR LINCOLN points out that in the back-up information for SB
 71, it is estimated that the chamber would get some revenue from              
 the classic and use that revenue to enhance and encourage tourism.            
                                                                               
 Number 358                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks if there is anything in the legislation                   
 stipulating how the money is to be used, or if it would be up to              
 the discretion of the Delta Chamber of Commerce.                              
                                                                               
 MS. BARGER replies, "Festival of Lights, and we have cooperated               
 with the federal and state governments, and we are in the process             
 of getting Sullivan Roadhouse, the oldest remaining roadhouse in              
 the interior, replaced from Fort Greely reservation to Delta                  
 Junction.  The chamber of commerce is taking on that                          
 responsibility.  If there are more funds available than it takes to           
 run our winter festival, then we will put it into Sullivan                    
 Roadhouse."                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR LINCOLN does not think the $25,000 will go very far to                
 promote further economic development for the community.                       
                                                                               
 Number 375                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks what the state regulations are, as far as cost            
 and licensing requirements, and the amount that is required to be             
 paid to the winner.                                                           
                                                                               
 DENNIS POSHARD, Director, Charitable Gaming Division, Department of           
 Revenue, stated there are no regulations requiring a minimum amount           
 of money be returned to the permittee, which in this case would be            
 the Delta Chamber of Commerce.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 396                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asks how the classic will be run; he sees two                   
 constraints: a time constraint and a temperature constraint.  What            
 will take precedence: guessing the right temperature, or guessing             
 the right date?                                                               
                                                                               
 MS. BARGER responds guessing the right temperature will take                  
 precedence, with the date and time second.                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks what happens if the temperature is the            
 same for eight straight hours.                                                
                                                                               
 MS. BARGER replies, "Then they would share the clock."                        
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY comments he has voted against everyone of these                
 bills for nine years now.  But he does not think it is an                     
 unreasonable thing for Delta to ask for; they are going to need               
 some help.  He will not oppose moving the bill from committee.                
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS makes a motion to discharge SB 71 from the             
 Senate State Affairs Committee with individual recommendations.               
 SENATOR LEMAN objects for the purposes of commenting on the                   
 subject.  He objects to gambling, although he supports the causes             
 the classics support.  Senator Leman states he will vote against              
 the bill when it reaches the floor, but he removes his objection.             
                                                                               
 Number 393                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP thinks the legislature might want to go through and            
 delete some of the games of chance from statute that are not                  
 currently in operation.  The chairman, hearing no further                     
 objection, orders SB 71 released from committee with individual               
 recommendations.                                                              
 SSTA - 3/21/95                                                                
                                                                               
          HB   4 PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND ELIGIBILITY                         
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP brings up HB 4 as the next order of business before            
 the Senate State Affairs Committee and calls the first witness.               
                                                                               
 Number 441                                                                    
                                                                               
 ROD MOURANT, Aide to Representative Pete Kott, prime sponsor of HB
 4, gives background information on HB 4.  Mr. Mourant mentions the            
 court case which disallowed "piggybacking", and states HB 4 would             
 make piggybacking a statutorily allowable absence.  Mr. Mourant               
 states allowable absences are for medical reasons, educational                
 reasons, military service, vocational, professional, and special              
 training not available in state, and for service in congress or the           
 peace corps.  He knows one woman who is being denied a dividend               
 while she accompanies and cares for her husband who is undergoing             
 cancer treatment out of state.  Mr. Mourant also knows a fourth-              
 generation Alaskan who has been denied a dividend while he                    
 accompanies his wife, who is out of state attending school.  He               
 informed the committee that HB 4 passed the house unanimously.                
                                                                               
 Number 486                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asks Mr. Mourant if this bill is the same as                    
 Representative Parnell's bill last year.                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT, prime sponsor of HB 4, responds HB 4 is             
 virtually identical.  He stated the bill passed both houses last              
 year, but the house was unable to concur with an amendment made in            
 the senate, and so the bill died.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 492                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP comments he is caused heartburn by military people             
 who satisfy the residency requirement and become eligible for a               
 dividend, and then come back for one day on a military transport              
 plane just to satisfy the dividend requirement after they are                 
 transferred out of state.  He has a problem with people who weren't           
 eligible for a dividend when they went in the military continuing             
 eligibility after they leave the state.  Chairman Sharp knows the             
 Soldiers & Sailors Relief Act requires that anyone in the military            
 cannot lose a benefit because of military service.  But he is not             
 sure, if it is a benefit they did not have when they joined the               
 service, that the benefit would necessarily have to follow them               
 forever.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 510                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT states he completely agrees with the chairman's           
 comments; there are a number of abuses with the permanent fund                
 dividend program.  He spent twenty-two years in the military, and             
 certainly insured that he stayed in the state.  But there are a               
 number of other individuals out there who are probably cheating the           
 system, not to cast any negative aspersions on anyone.  In                    
 addition, there are probably a lot of other individuals who come to           
 the state and collect dividends while here, but do not intend to              
 stay indefinitely.  Representative Kott informs the committee that            
 last year there was an attempt to establish a program within the              
 Department of Revenue.  This program would have set up an escrow              
 account for people eligible for dividends who were residing out of            
 state, and after these people had returned to the state and                   
 maintained residency for one year, they would have received the               
 money owed them.  That became a little unmanageable though; there             
 were a couple of snags.  But that is one way to address that                  
 particular issue.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 535                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks what is new in Section 2.                                 
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT responds the new structure in Section 2 is at the                 
 request of the Permanent Fund Dividend Division.  No provisions are           
 being changed, other than paragraph (8) under Section 2.                      
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks Mr. Mourant to confirm that paragraph (7) is in           
 existing statute.                                                             
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT replies paragraph (7) is currently in statute.                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks if anyone has raised the possibility of adding            
 a military service exception regarding the home of record of an               
 individual when they entered the military.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 549                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT is not aware of anyone in the legislature                 
 attempting to address that particular matter.                                 
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY asks Representative Kott how he would feel about               
 that.  The military personnel still in state would still be                   
 eligible.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT thinks it is something that could be looked               
 into, but it might also get into the issue of equal protection.               
 You have out-of-state military personnel, but you also have                   
 students and other categories, and you would have to address that             
 group as a whole, rather than single out one class.  He thinks the            
 legality of that would have to be addressed.                                  
                                                                               
 Number 561                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY thinks there is a rational distinction between the             
 classes of the military and students.  He thinks the state could              
 meet a federal test.                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 567                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KOTT is not sure; there is also the Soldiers and               
 Sailors Relief Act that has to be taken into consideration as well.           
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT adds that service in congress is also an allowable                
 absence.  It does not state "service to the Alaska delegation in              
 congress."  There are individuals who have maintained their                   
 residency in Alaska, who work for other states' delegations in                
 congress who are eligible for a dividend.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 570                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY says that those people all established residency in            
 Alaska first, before they began their service in congress.                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP thinks they probably were residents before they                
 became engaged in an exemption.                                               
                                                                               
 TAPE 95-12, SIDE B                                                            
                                                                               
 SENATOR RANDY PHILLIPS asks Mr. Mourant if Alaska residents who               
 work for other states' delegations in congress are really eligible            
 for a dividend.                                                               
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT replies he assumed they were eligible, but he sees that           
 a representative from the Permanent Fund Dividend Division is                 
 shaking her head "no."  He apologizes: they are eligible to vote in           
 this state.                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY says it appears paragraph (8) affects two classes of           
 people: the spouse who married an eligible recipient in Alaska, and           
 the spouse who married the eligible recipient after the recipient             
 left Alaska.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. MOURANT responds the spouse, or "piggybacker", must be                    
 independently eligible, on their own merits.  A spouse cannot be              
 eligible simply because they are married to a recipient with an               
 allowable absence.                                                            
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP comments he had a constituent who was a life-long              
 Alaskan who was denied a dividend because she married a military              
 person who wasn't eligible, and they had never even left the state.           
 The chairman asks about the potential cost of the bill.  He asks if           
 anyone will be eligible, or if only people who applied for                    
 dividends and were denied will be eligible.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 560                                                                    
                                                                               
 WENDY HUGHES, Dividend Appeals Unit, Permanent Fund Dividend                  
 Division, Department of Revenue, replies there were 2,690 people              
 who were denied a dividend.  As of December 31, there 1,373 people            
 who had appealed.  So it would be just those additional people who            
 had not appealed in a timely manner who would be allowed to appeal            
 before September 1.                                                           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if the bill would include piggybacking                    
 children.                                                                     
                                                                               
 MS. HUGHES responds the bill does not include piggybacking                    
 children, because the court ruling regarding piggybacking only                
 affected spouses; it did not affect piggybacking children.                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Hughes if most people affected by this bill           
 are military, or if there are students involved too.                          
                                                                               
 MS. HUGHES believes about 40% are probably military, and 40%-45%              
 are probably students.                                                        
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks Ms. Hughes if she knows how many people qualify           
 under the military service allowable absence.                                 
                                                                               
 MS. HUGHES replies she does not know offhand, but could get that              
 information for the committee.                                                
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks if the department keeps track of allowable                
 absences applied for and paid by paragraphs (1)-(6) in HB 4.                  
                                                                               
 MS. HUGHES responds the department does keep track of that.                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP asks that the information be provided to the                   
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 528                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asks if the department keeps track of the military              
 personnel who say they intend to return to Alaska when they retire,           
 and those who actually do return to Alaska when they retire.                  
                                                                               
 MS. HUGHES replies the department does not keep track of that.                
                                                                               
 SENATOR LEMAN asks if there is any way that information could be              
 tracked.                                                                      
                                                                               
 MS. HUGHES thinks that would be pretty exhaustive to attempt.  The            
 other consideration is those who discontinue filing, even though              
 they might keep their residency, simply because they don't meet the           
 two-year physical presence requirement.  They might not be dropping           
 simply because they didn't intend to return.  So the department               
 really doesn't have any numbers on that.                                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP announces HB 4 will be held until Tuesday's meeting            
 so that the committee can review information it has requested from            
 the Department of Revenue.                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN SHARP states the next committee meeting will be Tuesday,             
 March 28, 1995.  The committee will hear bills held over and the              
 bills scheduled for Thursday's meeting, which was cancelled.                  
                                                                               

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